Honda is the best

Question:

> Saying that a certain vehicle is better simply because more of them are sold > is like saying that a McDonalds hamburger is a superior food simply because > more of them are sold.

It certainly backs up my claim that the Silverado is a better sports car than the Murcielago.

Response:

Believe what you what you want but in all my years in retail I can assure you the final deterring factor in 99% of all vehicle sales is; ‘How much will my monthly payment be?’   mike hunt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > <top posting corrected> > > > Everyone is entitled to an opinion and that may be their opinion, > > > but theirs is that of a minority.  The opinion that counts the > > > most is that of the buying public, those that put their money > > > were there mouth is.  Buyers like Honda cars but many more buyers > > > prefer Ford over Honda, by ten to one, when > > > it comes to trucks. > > Yes, and they prefer Ford over Luxury SUV Category: Volkswagen Touareg > V- by an large amount when it comes to > > trucks.  Doesn’t prove much when neither Honda nor Porsche makes > pickups. > > > The number one sellers in the US, car or > > > truck by more than nearly a half million sales over the best > > > selling car, is the Ford F series and the F150 has been the best > > > selling vehicle in the world, car or truck, for 26 years. > > And how many full-size trucks does Honda make? > > > The > > > number one selling mid size truck is the Ranger. > > And how many mid-size trucks does Honda make? > > > The number one > > > selling full size SUV is the Expedition > > And how many full-size SUVs does Honda make? > > > and the number one > > > selling mid size SUV in the world like the Pilot, is the > > > Explorer. > > Finally, you get to a model where there might be competition! > >  Nearly 400,000 a year, almost as many sales as the best > > > selling car. The number one selling small SUV is the Escape. > > > Both Chevy and Dodge trucks outsell the two best selling cars in > > > the US.. > > Because there are more models of cars to select from than models of > trucks. > > I really don’t see your point.  You could just easily claim that Honda > makes > > better cars because they sell far more motorcycles in the US than Ford > does. > > Unless you’re comparing competing models the numbers are meaningless. > > Also, the sales numbers don’t have anything to do with quality.  Sure > Ford > > sells a lot of vehicles, but are these vehicles therefore of better > quality? > > A lot of people buy Fords, Chevys, and Chryslers because they insist > upon > > "buying American", not because the vehicles are superior in quality.  I > > remember one acquaintaince who was quite angry when I pointed out that > his > > new "American Made" truck was built in Mexico.  Apparently he wasn’t > aware > > of the finer points of the term "American". > If you want to jump in on a thread at least read it right before > you start replying.  The post to which I responded WAS talking > about an article on BEST TRUCKS as if it were a fact > with the poster pointing to 3 of 5 being Honda models.  Re; > >CarAndDriver has selected 5 BEST TRUCKS of the year 2003… > >3 out of 5 best are from Honda. > >Small SUV Category: Honda CR-V > >Large SUV Category: Honda Pilot > >Van Category: Honda Odyssey > What I said was, that is only their opinion as to which is the > best truck and it was that of a minority, by pointing out that > although many buyers do prefer some Honda cars many MORE buyers > prefer FORD trucks than HONDA trucks.  Both do in fact compete in > those types and price range and FORD is by far the bigger seller. > Since you’re the Ford apologist here, I can see why you obsess on sales > figures.  People who are shopping for vehicles have many different > motivations, and quality is only one of these.  Some are attracted by flashy > advertisements, some by big rebates from overinflated prices, and some > simply by inertia. > Saying that a certain vehicle is better simply because more of them are sold > is like saying that a McDonalds hamburger is a superior food simply because > more of them are sold. > The fact that Honda managed to get C&D’s top ratings in every truck category > in which they offer a vehicle is rather remarkable. > It’s likely that a motor journalist who examines many different vehicles > would have a more balanced perspective about the qualities of vehicles than > the typical car buyer. > George

Response:

How can any thinking person compare hamburger to other foods? One can only compare it to other hamburgers in the same price range.  Again the buyers do in fact prefer McDonald’s over Wendy’s.  Just as they prefer the Camry over the Accord or the Ford SUV over the Hondas, pretty simple stuff in basic logic. mike hunt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Saying that a certain vehicle is better simply because more of them are > sold > is like saying that a McDonalds hamburger is a superior food simply > because > more of them are sold. > It certainly backs up my claim that the Silverado is a better sports car > than the Murcielago. >

Response:

> How can any thinking person compare hamburger to other foods? > One can only compare it to other hamburgers in the same price > range.  Again the buyers do in fact prefer McDonald’s over > Wendy’s.  Just as they prefer the Camry over the Accord or the > Ford SUV over the Hondas, pretty simple stuff in basic logic.

Oh yeah. Buyers preferences and habits are *dead* simple and basic. Logical, too! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> mike hunt > It certainly backs up my claim that the Silverado is a better sports car > than the Murcielago. >

Response:

> Believe what you what you want but in all my years in > retail I can assure you the final deterring factor in > 99% of all vehicle sales is; ‘How much will my monthly > payment be?’  

which is a number they can make as low as you want.

Response:

>Believe what you what you want but in all my years in >retail I can assure you the final deterring factor in >99% of all vehicle sales is; ‘How much will my monthly >payment be?’  

I like the smiley, Mike.  You should put them on all your postings so we all will know not to take any of them seriously.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Everyone is entitled to an opinion and that may be their opinion, > but theirs is that of a minority.   > How do you qualify ‘minority’?  "Best" does not necessarily mean most > sold, since Hondas are generally more expensive than their > GM/Ford/Dodge counterparts.  I’m sure there are many people in America > who drive a Montana/Windstar/Caravan who would *like* to drive an > Odyssey, but does not because it is more expensive.  I actually had > this exact conversation with an uncle on Saturday who drives a > Montana, but has a modest income.  The reality is that most people buy > what they can afford, which is not necessarily what they WANT.  Bottom > line: just because more are sold, does not mean it is "better" (being > the extremely vague word that it is). > The opinion that counts the > most is that of the buying public, those that put their money > were there mouth is.   > True.  But fact is that *many* people in America do not buy the car > they desire most, but a car they like and can AFFORD.

As in I *want* a Ferrari, but I drive a CR-V.. Forza CR-v – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Buyers like Honda cars but many more buyers > prefer Ford over Honda, by ten to one, when > it comes to trucks.   > Comparing sales of cars to trucks is like apples to oranges.  You are > again equating "prefer" = "buy", which is not necessarily the case. > There is also a bias in comparing Honda to Ford for trucks, since > Honda does not produce a pickup, and the fact that many companies > flood the market by purchasing fleets of cost-effective work vehicles > (read: Ford F-series).   As for SUV’s the full-size Pilot is still new > to the market while the Explorer/Expedition/Excursion (did I miss > any??) have been around a number of years.  The CRV and Escape barely > pass as "trucks".  Windstar vs Odyssey is a somewhat fair comparison, > but you get what you pay for; the Honda product is considerably more > pricey, while the Windstar is known to be problem-prone, albeit not as > bad as the Aerostar it replaced.  Comparing feedback from owners > generally shows the same picture as the pricetags. > The number one sellers in the US, car or > truck by more than nearly a half million sales over the best > selling car, is the Ford F series and the F150 has been the best > selling vehicle in the world, car or truck, for 26 years. The > number one selling mid size truck is the Ranger. The number one > selling full size SUV is the Expedition and the number one > selling mid size SUV in the world like the Pilot, is the > Explorer. Nearly 400,000 a year, almost as many sales as the best > selling car. The number one selling small SUV is the Escape. > Both Chevy and Dodge trucks outsell the two best selling cars in > the US.. > I don’t really understand your point here, as you are going in three > different directions at once.  You are comparing truck sales to car > sales at the same time as comparing manufacturer sales between Ford > and Honda, and spent half the paragraph writing about pickups – a > class Honda does not even produce.  You finish off by again saying > trucks sell more than cars.  How is this relevant to anything??? > Kevin

Response:

If you want to jump in on a thread at least read it right before you start replying.  The post to which I responded WAS talking about an article on BEST TRUCKS as if it were a fact with the poster pointing to 3 of 5 being Honda models.  Re; >CarAndDriver has selected 5 BEST TRUCKS of the year 2003… >3 out of 5 best are from Honda. >Small SUV Category: Honda CR-V >Large SUV Category: Honda Pilot >Van Category: Honda Odyssey

What I said was, that is only their opinion as to which is the best truck and it was that of a minority, by pointing out that although many buyers do prefer some Honda cars many MORE buyers prefer FORD trucks than HONDA trucks.  Both do in fact compete in those types and price range and FORD is by far the bigger seller. Comparing vehicles of different prices is what is meaningless. You may have inferred that one is better than the other but I didn’t say any one was better than the other, nor did in imply that.  What I said was more buyer prefer one over the other be it an Accord or Ford truck and they they buy many more Ford rucks than buyers buy Honda trucks or cars..  I didn’t say anything about American made.  One can determine that for themselves by looking at the first number of the VIN.   Contrary to what you may have told you acquaintance Ford does not sell a truck in the US that is made in Mexico.  They do build the Crown Vic of American made parts, as well as some trucks in Canada of American parts for sale in Canada, but that truck plant is being closed. All Fords domestic brands of cars and truck have a ‘1′ as the first number of the VIN meaning they are made in the US, except the Focus which has a ‘3′ and is assembled in Mexico, of at least 75% American made parts.  The CV/GM which have a ‘2′ is assembled in Canada of at least 75% American made parts.   Many of the so called American made foreign brands are not American at all, merely assemble in the US.  The first number is a ‘4′ meaning assembled in the US of less than 75%, but more than 45% of foreign made parts. Many more like the Tundra have a ‘5′ meaning assembled in the US of less than 45% American parts.  How many Honda brands have a 1 or 2 and ‘J,’ made in Japan? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Everyone is entitled to an opinion and that may be their opinion, > but theirs is that of a minority.  The opinion that counts the > most is that of the buying public, those that put their money > were there mouth is.  Buyers like Honda cars but many more buyers > prefer Ford over Honda, by ten to one, when > it comes to trucks. > Yes, and they prefer Ford over Luxury SUV Category: Volkswagen Touareg V- by an large amount when it comes to > trucks.  Doesn’t prove much when neither Honda nor Porsche makes pickups. > The number one sellers in the US, car or > truck by more than nearly a half million sales over the best > selling car, is the Ford F series and the F150 has been the best > selling vehicle in the world, car or truck, for 26 years. > And how many full-size trucks does Honda make? > The > number one selling mid size truck is the Ranger. > And how many mid-size trucks does Honda make? > The number one > selling full size SUV is the Expedition > And how many full-size SUVs does Honda make? > and the number one > selling mid size SUV in the world like the Pilot, is the > Explorer. > Finally, you get to a model where there might be competition! >  Nearly 400,000 a year, almost as many sales as the best > selling car. The number one selling small SUV is the Escape. > Both Chevy and Dodge trucks outsell the two best selling cars in > the US.. > Because there are more models of cars to select from than models of trucks. > I really don’t see your point.  You could just easily claim that Honda makes > better cars because they sell far more motorcycles in the US than Ford does. > Unless you’re comparing competing models the numbers are meaningless. > Also, the sales numbers don’t have anything to do with quality.  Sure Ford > sells a lot of vehicles, but are these vehicles therefore of better quality? > A lot of people buy Fords, Chevys, and Chryslers because they insist upon > "buying American", not because the vehicles are superior in quality.  I > remember one acquaintaince who was quite angry when I pointed out that his > new "American Made" truck was built in Mexico.  Apparently he wasn’t aware > of the finer points of the term "American".

Response:

<top posting corrected> > > Everyone is entitled to an opinion and that may be their opinion, > > but theirs is that of a minority.  The opinion that counts the > > most is that of the buying public, those that put their money > > were there mouth is.  Buyers like Honda cars but many more buyers > > prefer Ford over Honda, by ten to one, when > > it comes to trucks. > Yes, and they prefer Ford over Luxury SUV Category: Volkswagen Touareg

V- by an large amount when it comes to – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> trucks.  Doesn’t prove much when neither Honda nor Porsche makes pickups. > > The number one sellers in the US, car or > > truck by more than nearly a half million sales over the best > > selling car, is the Ford F series and the F150 has been the best > > selling vehicle in the world, car or truck, for 26 years. > And how many full-size trucks does Honda make? > > The > > number one selling mid size truck is the Ranger. > And how many mid-size trucks does Honda make? > > The number one > > selling full size SUV is the Expedition > And how many full-size SUVs does Honda make? > > and the number one > > selling mid size SUV in the world like the Pilot, is the > > Explorer. > Finally, you get to a model where there might be competition! >  Nearly 400,000 a year, almost as many sales as the best > > selling car. The number one selling small SUV is the Escape. > > Both Chevy and Dodge trucks outsell the two best selling cars in > > the US.. > Because there are more models of cars to select from than models of trucks. > I really don’t see your point.  You could just easily claim that Honda makes > better cars because they sell far more motorcycles in the US than Ford does. > Unless you’re comparing competing models the numbers are meaningless. > Also, the sales numbers don’t have anything to do with quality.  Sure Ford > sells a lot of vehicles, but are these vehicles therefore of better quality? > A lot of people buy Fords, Chevys, and Chryslers because they insist upon > "buying American", not because the vehicles are superior in quality.  I > remember one acquaintaince who was quite angry when I pointed out that his > new "American Made" truck was built in Mexico.  Apparently he wasn’t aware > of the finer points of the term "American". > If you want to jump in on a thread at least read it right before > you start replying.  The post to which I responded WAS talking > about an article on BEST TRUCKS as if it were a fact > with the poster pointing to 3 of 5 being Honda models.  Re; >CarAndDriver has selected 5 BEST TRUCKS of the year 2003… >3 out of 5 best are from Honda. >Small SUV Category: Honda CR-V >Large SUV Category: Honda Pilot >Van Category: Honda Odyssey > What I said was, that is only their opinion as to which is the > best truck and it was that of a minority, by pointing out that > although many buyers do prefer some Honda cars many MORE buyers > prefer FORD trucks than HONDA trucks.  Both do in fact compete in > those types and price range and FORD is by far the bigger seller.

Since you’re the Ford apologist here, I can see why you obsess on sales figures.  People who are shopping for vehicles have many different motivations, and quality is only one of these.  Some are attracted by flashy advertisements, some by big rebates from overinflated prices, and some simply by inertia. Saying that a certain vehicle is better simply because more of them are sold is like saying that a McDonalds hamburger is a superior food simply because more of them are sold. The fact that Honda managed to get C&D’s top ratings in every truck category in which they offer a vehicle is rather remarkable. It’s likely that a motor journalist who examines many different vehicles would have a more balanced perspective about the qualities of vehicles than the typical car buyer. George

Response:

> Everyone is entitled to an opinion and that may be their opinion, > but theirs is that of a minority.  

How do you qualify ‘minority’?  "Best" does not necessarily mean most sold, since Hondas are generally more expensive than their GM/Ford/Dodge counterparts.  I’m sure there are many people in America who drive a Montana/Windstar/Caravan who would *like* to drive an Odyssey, but does not because it is more expensive.  I actually had this exact conversation with an uncle on Saturday who drives a Montana, but has a modest income.  The reality is that most people buy what they can afford, which is not necessarily what they WANT.  Bottom line: just because more are sold, does not mean it is "better" (being the extremely vague word that it is). > The opinion that counts the > most is that of the buying public, those that put their money > were there mouth is.  

True.  But fact is that *many* people in America do not buy the car they desire most, but a car they like and can AFFORD. > Buyers like Honda cars but many more buyers > prefer Ford over Honda, by ten to one, when > it comes to trucks.  

Comparing sales of cars to trucks is like apples to oranges.  You are again equating "prefer" = "buy", which is not necessarily the case. There is also a bias in comparing Honda to Ford for trucks, since Honda does not produce a pickup, and the fact that many companies flood the market by purchasing fleets of cost-effective work vehicles (read: Ford F-series).   As for SUV’s the full-size Pilot is still new to the market while the Explorer/Expedition/Excursion (did I miss any??) have been around a number of years.  The CRV and Escape barely pass as "trucks".  Windstar vs Odyssey is a somewhat fair comparison, but you get what you pay for; the Honda product is considerably more pricey, while the Windstar is known to be problem-prone, albeit not as bad as the Aerostar it replaced.  Comparing feedback from owners generally shows the same picture as the pricetags. > The number one sellers in the US, car or > truck by more than nearly a half million sales over the best > selling car, is the Ford F series and the F150 has been the best > selling vehicle in the world, car or truck, for 26 years. The > number one selling mid size truck is the Ranger. The number one > selling full size SUV is the Expedition and the number one > selling mid size SUV in the world like the Pilot, is the > Explorer. Nearly 400,000 a year, almost as many sales as the best > selling car. The number one selling small SUV is the Escape. > Both Chevy and Dodge trucks outsell the two best selling cars in > the US..

I don’t really understand your point here, as you are going in three different directions at once.  You are comparing truck sales to car sales at the same time as comparing manufacturer sales between Ford and Honda, and spent half the paragraph writing about pickups – a class Honda does not even produce.  You finish off by again saying trucks sell more than cars.  How is this relevant to anything??? Kevin

Response:

> Everyone is entitled to an opinion and that may be their opinion, > but theirs is that of a minority.  The opinion that counts the > most is that of the buying public, those that put their money > were there mouth is.  Buyers like Honda cars but many more buyers > prefer Ford over Honda, by ten to one, when > it comes to trucks.

Yes, and they prefer Ford over Porsche by an large amount when it comes to trucks.  Doesn’t prove much when neither Honda nor Porsche makes pickups. > The number one sellers in the US, car or > truck by more than nearly a half million sales over the best > selling car, is the Ford F series and the F150 has been the best > selling vehicle in the world, car or truck, for 26 years.

And how many full-size trucks does Honda make? > The > number one selling mid size truck is the Ranger.

And how many mid-size trucks does Honda make? > The number one > selling full size SUV is the Expedition

And how many full-size SUVs does Honda make? > and the number one > selling mid size SUV in the world like the Pilot, is the > Explorer.

Finally, you get to a model where there might be competition!  Nearly 400,000 a year, almost as many sales as the best > selling car. The number one selling small SUV is the Escape. > Both Chevy and Dodge trucks outsell the two best selling cars in > the US..

Because there are more models of cars to select from than models of trucks. I really don’t see your point.  You could just easily claim that Honda makes better cars because they sell far more motorcycles in the US than Ford does. Unless you’re comparing competing models the numbers are meaningless. Also, the sales numbers don’t have anything to do with quality.  Sure Ford sells a lot of vehicles, but are these vehicles therefore of better quality? A lot of people buy Fords, Chevys, and Chryslers because they insist upon "buying American", not because the vehicles are superior in quality.  I remember one acquaintaince who was quite angry when I pointed out that his new "American Made" truck was built in Mexico.  Apparently he wasn’t aware of the finer points of the term "American".

Response:

Everyone is entitled to an opinion and that may be their opinion, but theirs is that of a minority.  The opinion that counts the most is that of the buying public, those that put their money were there mouth is.  Buyers like Honda cars but many more buyers prefer Ford over Honda, by ten to one, when it comes to trucks.  The number one sellers in the US, car or truck by more than nearly a half million sales over the best selling car, is the Ford F series and the F150 has been the best selling vehicle in the world, car or truck, for 26 years. The number one selling mid size truck is the Ranger. The number one selling full size SUV is the Expedition and the number one selling mid size SUV in the world like the Pilot, is the Explorer. Nearly 400,000 a year, almost as many sales as the best selling car. The number one selling small SUV is the Escape. Both Chevy and Dodge trucks outsell the two best selling cars in the US.. mike hunt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > CarAndDriver has selected 5 BEST TRUCKS of the year 2003… > 3 out of 5 best are from Honda. > Small SUV Category: Honda CR-V > Large SUV Category: Honda Pilot > Luxury SUV Category: Volkswagen Touareg V-8 > PickUp Category: Chevrolet Silverado > Van Category: Honda Odyssey

Response:

CarAndDriver has selected 5 BEST TRUCKS of the year 2003… 3 out of 5 best are from Honda. Small SUV Category: Honda CR-V Large SUV Category: Honda Pilot Luxury SUV Category: Volkswagen Touareg V-8 PickUp Category: Chevrolet Silverado Van Category: Honda Odyssey

Response:

> CarAndDriver has selected 5 BEST TRUCKS of the year 2003… > 3 out of 5 best are from Honda.

Not take away from Honda’s victory sweep, but you have to ask yourself what "best" means.  What’s best for you or C&D may not necessarily be best for me. Cheers, Pete

Response:

You don’t have to ask yourself… you can simply read how the trucks are rated in C&D.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> CarAndDriver has selected 5 BEST TRUCKS of the year 2003… > 3 out of 5 best are from Honda. > Not take away from Honda’s victory sweep, but you have to ask yourself what > "best" means.  What’s best for you or C&D may not necessarily be best for > me. > Cheers, > Pete

Response:

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