57 Chevy PU and Pertronix help needed
Question:
Wow.. when I paid $65 for my pertronix kit about 2 years ago the Mallory one was only about $15 more.. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I was quoted 84 for the Pertronix (should have ben $79) and for the Mallery >they wanted $180 so I decided on the cheaper one for now. Maybe if it >breaks I will try the Mallery. >-Stacey
Response:
And just how long would it have taken you IF the instructions would have said can be done in a short afternoon? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Just a followup for anyone that happened to read this thread. > I got it all installed and it works like a champ! > Nice and smooth, easy starting and excellerates much better. I guess my > points were way out of wack! But now I do not have to worry about them > anymore! > I think my hard starting problems are over with now also. > The documentation said install in 15 minutes. It took 2 trips to the auto > store, once for a new gasket and another time to find a replacement roll pin > to attach the gear at the bottom of the distributor with. All in all I > spent about 5 hours or so on it including timing and getting the gears to > lineup again. My aching back. Leaning over that engine to get to the > distributor is a real pain! > Thanks for everyones help. > -Stacey >I finally got around to installing the PERTRONIX igniter (points >replacement) in my 57 Chevy PU. Several of you mentioned that you had used >this. I have a couple questions at the end. >Here is a bit of history on my installation: >The instructions laid it out pretty good. As mentioned in them I did have >some gear slop. >I had lots of extra slop from the gear on the bottom so I needed to pull > the >distributor and install a washer as they said I might need to. I was >tempted to put in both washers but it was a bit too snug and as the gear >spins and the washers do not I thought it needed to have a bit of space or >it would all melt. So I just put in one and then used the little washers > on >the magnetic ring to take up the rest of the slack. This seemed to work >out OK. >After several attempts I finally got the distributor back in and lined up >properly. For some reason it would not mesh correctly to get in the right >place. I ended up taking the bottom gear off and rotating it 180 to > finally >get it right. I swear I had it right but I guess I must not have. The > pin >that holds it on is directly under a tooth on one side and under a slot on >the other. Now it is lined up correctly on my marks. >It started right up. But the timing was out a bit. It seems to be > advanced >too much. My book ("Chevrolet Truck Shop Manual 57" ) says that at 1000 >RPM it needs to be at 8 degrees BUDC (on page 6-46) (never heard of BUDC, >BTDC yes but BUDC?) but it was now at about 12 degrees. I rotated the >distributor clockwise and it got retarded to about 9 degrees but that is as >far as it goes. The vacuum advance is hitting the bracket in the rear used >to remove/pull the engine with. I was planning to remove the bracket so >that I could get it adjusted to 8 degrees. The window in the distributor > is >still facing the front but a tad to the passengers side. >So my questions! >1). Do you run 8 degrees on 283 V8 for a 57 PU? > I think the engine is really about a 65 model year. > "Chevrolet Truck Shop Manual 57" says 8 BUDC on page 6-46 > then it says that is 4 marks above the O toward the engine center. > Later on page 6y-55 it says ignition timing -8 cylinder 4 degress >BTDC > (that Before Top Dead Center) I think. What is BUDC? (A typo?) > Later on the same page it says Centrifugal Advance -8 Cylinder: > So what are all of these? > Do I do it for 8 degrees or some other setting? >2.) When you installed a pertronix did it cause your timing to be more >advanced? >3.) When you do the measuring of the timing do you: > A. idle at 1000 RPM? > B. remove the vacuum advance line to the distributor? > (if I do not it is even more advanced) >4.) I was able to run the leads from the PERTRONIX to the + and – sides of >the COIL and did not have to mess with the ballast resister. As a result >the leads are about 12" too long. Did you trim them up and put on >different connectors? >What did you do with the extra length that you did not need.? >I was afraid that if it lays on the engine it might get too hot and melt > off >short out. >That is about it for now. If any of you have any advice please let me > know. >Thanks, >Stacey
Response:
> hehe yeah I had one of the pertronix kits in my 73 Oldsmobile.. installed >in about 10-15 mins.. I had it for about 2 year with not a single problem >until my distributor shaft got chewed up. I dropped an HEI in it and >installed the pertronix system in my sisters 69 Firebird. now she loves it.. >Its a nice kit.. I would have liked to try the Mallery optical kit as well..
I was quoted 84 for the Pertronix (should have ben $79) and for the Mallery they wanted $180 so I decided on the cheaper one for now. Maybe if it breaks I will try the Mallery. -Stacey
Response:
hehe yeah I had one of the pertronix kits in my 73 Oldsmobile.. installed in about 10-15 mins.. I had it for about 2 year with not a single problem until my distributor shaft got chewed up. I dropped an HEI in it and installed the pertronix system in my sisters 69 Firebird. now she loves it.. Its a nice kit.. I would have liked to try the Mallery optical kit as well..
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Just a followup for anyone that happened to read this thread. >I got it all installed and it works like a champ! >Nice and smooth, easy starting and excellerates much better. I guess my >points were way out of wack! But now I do not have to worry about them >anymore! >I think my hard starting problems are over with now also. >The documentation said install in 15 minutes. It took 2 trips to the auto >store, once for a new gasket and another time to find a replacement roll pin >to attach the gear at the bottom of the distributor with. All in all I >spent about 5 hours or so on it including timing and getting the gears to >lineup again. My aching back. Leaning over that engine to get to the >distributor is a real pain!
Response:
Just a followup for anyone that happened to read this thread. I got it all installed and it works like a champ! Nice and smooth, easy starting and excellerates much better. I guess my points were way out of wack! But now I do not have to worry about them anymore! I think my hard starting problems are over with now also. The documentation said install in 15 minutes. It took 2 trips to the auto store, once for a new gasket and another time to find a replacement roll pin to attach the gear at the bottom of the distributor with. All in all I spent about 5 hours or so on it including timing and getting the gears to lineup again. My aching back. Leaning over that engine to get to the distributor is a real pain! Thanks for everyones help. -Stacey – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I finally got around to installing the PERTRONIX igniter (points >replacement) in my 57 Chevy PU. Several of you mentioned that you had used >this. I have a couple questions at the end. >Here is a bit of history on my installation: >The instructions laid it out pretty good. As mentioned in them I did have >some gear slop. >I had lots of extra slop from the gear on the bottom so I needed to pull the >distributor and install a washer as they said I might need to. I was >tempted to put in both washers but it was a bit too snug and as the gear >spins and the washers do not I thought it needed to have a bit of space or >it would all melt. So I just put in one and then used the little washers on >the magnetic ring to take up the rest of the slack. This seemed to work >out OK. >After several attempts I finally got the distributor back in and lined up >properly. For some reason it would not mesh correctly to get in the right >place. I ended up taking the bottom gear off and rotating it 180 to finally >get it right. I swear I had it right but I guess I must not have. The pin >that holds it on is directly under a tooth on one side and under a slot on >the other. Now it is lined up correctly on my marks. >It started right up. But the timing was out a bit. It seems to be advanced >too much. My book ("Chevrolet Truck Shop Manual 57" ) says that at 1000 >RPM it needs to be at 8 degrees BUDC (on page 6-46) (never heard of BUDC, >BTDC yes but BUDC?) but it was now at about 12 degrees. I rotated the >distributor clockwise and it got retarded to about 9 degrees but that is as >far as it goes. The vacuum advance is hitting the bracket in the rear used >to remove/pull the engine with. I was planning to remove the bracket so >that I could get it adjusted to 8 degrees. The window in the distributor is >still facing the front but a tad to the passengers side. >So my questions! >1). Do you run 8 degrees on 283 V8 for a 57 PU? > I think the engine is really about a 65 model year. > "Chevrolet Truck Shop Manual 57" says 8 BUDC on page 6-46 > then it says that is 4 marks above the O toward the engine center. > Later on page 6y-55 it says ignition timing -8 cylinder 4 degress >BTDC > (that Before Top Dead Center) I think. What is BUDC? (A typo?) > Later on the same page it says Centrifugal Advance -8 Cylinder: > So what are all of these? > Do I do it for 8 degrees or some other setting? >2.) When you installed a pertronix did it cause your timing to be more >advanced? >3.) When you do the measuring of the timing do you: > A. idle at 1000 RPM? > B. remove the vacuum advance line to the distributor? > (if I do not it is even more advanced) >4.) I was able to run the leads from the PERTRONIX to the + and – sides of >the COIL and did not have to mess with the ballast resister. As a result >the leads are about 12" too long. Did you trim them up and put on >different connectors? >What did you do with the extra length that you did not need.? >I was afraid that if it lays on the engine it might get too hot and melt off >short out. >That is about it for now. If any of you have any advice please let me know. >Thanks, >Stacey
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Stacey, here’s what you do: Close that book, and use it to hold a door > >open or something. Then set your timing as follows. First, get your > motor > >idling where you like it. 1000 rpm is too high, I like 750 or a little > >less. Now, DISCONNECT the vacuum advance from the carburetor. Timing > at > >idle (called "initial timing") should be in the neighborhood of 8 > degrees > >advanced. I don’t know what the hell BUDC is. Advanced is BTDC, before > >top dead center. Now, rev the motor up to ~3000 rpm and watch the > timing.
BUDC Before Upper Dead Center the opposite of Botom Dead Center. It is just old terminology. Every thing else said here is correct. Bill – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >It should advance to 34 – 38 degrees, no higher than 38. Even 38 is > >probably a little high. You want the timing to be all in by 3000 rpm, > >beginning just around 1400 rpm or so. > How are you reading the degrees? > My marks on the engine template are R O A with the A going to about 12 > to > 14 degrees Advanced. How do you read 38 degrees? > Do you have some sort of meter? > Oops, got ahead of myself. Sorry. You either need a timing tape on the > harmonic balancer that reads degrees beyond 14, or you need a dial back > timing light. If you don’t have either, which most people don’t, you can’t > check total timing. This is alright, just get the 8 degrees set. The > total timing should be fine, but it’s common practice to check it if > possible. > I did get it set OK a 8 degrees and it seems to sound OK. I did not test > drive it yet bu it revs fine. > It probably will no matter what the timing is. As long as your initial is > set, you should be fine. > Justin > — > Well I ain’t first class, > But I ain’t white trash, > I’m wild and a little crazy too, > Some girls don’t like boys like me, > Aw but some girls do. –Sawyer Brown
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >And, yes, remove and plug that vacuum advance line. > Why do you have to plug it? > It becomes a vacuum leak if not plugged. > Are you pluging the end of the hose that goes to the carb or the end that > goes to the vacuum advance? > Well, that depends on which end you pull off 
> Let me say that differentedly…. > Should I remove the vacuum line from the vacuum advance side or the > carburator side? > I am guessing that I need to remove it from the vacum advance and plug > the > end of the hose so that the carberator does not keep pulling in air from > that line. Is that correct? > Yeah, you can do it that way. > In the past I always left it on the vacuum advance and plugged it but > that > should not do anything for the vacuum advance and it does have an effect > on > the carb sucking more air in the vacuum line. > So which way is correct? > Either way is correct. What I usually do is leave the hose attached to > the vacuum advance, and pull it off the carb. No need to plug the hose > end, but you could slip a cap over the fitting on the carb. I usually > don’t, though, as capping the fitting on the carb has no effect on timing. > It’s just a minor vacuum leak, doesn’t even effect idle speed. So I > usually just yank the line off the carb, check my timing, adjust as > necessary, and reconnect the line. > Justin > — > Well I ain’t first class, > But I ain’t white trash, > I’m wild and a little crazy too, > Some girls don’t like boys like me, > Aw but some girls do. –Sawyer Brown
Justin on newer cars (can’t remember ythe year break for shure but it is in the early 70’s) it isn’t much of a leakas there is no vacuum to the advance at idle it show up just off idle as you speed the engine up. On the older cars you have constant vacuum and it ca cause a significant change in idle speed. Bill 75 Camar0 350 4bbl – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Response:
>And, yes, remove and plug that vacuum advance line. > Why do you have to plug it?
It becomes a vacuum leak if not plugged. > Are you pluging the end of the hose that goes to the carb or the end that > goes to the vacuum advance?
Well, that depends on which end you pull off > Let me say that differentedly…. > Should I remove the vacuum line from the vacuum advance side or the > carburator side? > I am guessing that I need to remove it from the vacum advance and plug the > end of the hose so that the carberator does not keep pulling in air from > that line. Is that correct?
Yeah, you can do it that way. > In the past I always left it on the vacuum advance and plugged it but that > should not do anything for the vacuum advance and it does have an effect on > the carb sucking more air in the vacuum line. > So which way is correct?
Either way is correct. What I usually do is leave the hose attached to the vacuum advance, and pull it off the carb. No need to plug the hose end, but you could slip a cap over the fitting on the carb. I usually don’t, though, as capping the fitting on the carb has no effect on timing. It’s just a minor vacuum leak, doesn’t even effect idle speed. So I usually just yank the line off the carb, check my timing, adjust as necessary, and reconnect the line. Justin — Well I ain’t first class, But I ain’t white trash, I’m wild and a little crazy too, Some girls don’t like boys like me, Aw but some girls do. –Sawyer Brown
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Stacey, here’s what you do: Close that book, and use it to hold a door >open or something. Then set your timing as follows. First, get your motor >idling where you like it. 1000 rpm is too high, I like 750 or a little >less. Now, DISCONNECT the vacuum advance from the carburetor. Timing at >idle (called "initial timing") should be in the neighborhood of 8 degrees >advanced. I don’t know what the hell BUDC is. Advanced is BTDC, before >top dead center. Now, rev the motor up to ~3000 rpm and watch the timing. >It should advance to 34 – 38 degrees, no higher than 38. Even 38 is >probably a little high. You want the timing to be all in by 3000 rpm, >beginning just around 1400 rpm or so. > How are you reading the degrees? > My marks on the engine template are R O A with the A going to about 12 to > 14 degrees Advanced. How do you read 38 degrees? > Do you have some sort of meter?
Oops, got ahead of myself. Sorry. You either need a timing tape on the harmonic balancer that reads degrees beyond 14, or you need a dial back timing light. If you don’t have either, which most people don’t, you can’t check total timing. This is alright, just get the 8 degrees set. The total timing should be fine, but it’s common practice to check it if possible. > I did get it set OK a 8 degrees and it seems to sound OK. I did not test > drive it yet bu it revs fine.
It probably will no matter what the timing is. As long as your initial is set, you should be fine. Justin — Well I ain’t first class, But I ain’t white trash, I’m wild and a little crazy too, Some girls don’t like boys like me, Aw but some girls do. –Sawyer Brown
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I finally got around to installing the PERTRONIX igniter (points > replacement) in my 57 Chevy PU. Several of you mentioned that you had used > this. I have a couple questions at the end. > Here is a bit of history on my installation: > The instructions laid it out pretty good. As mentioned in them I did have > some gear slop. > I had lots of extra slop from the gear on the bottom so I needed to pull the > distributor and install a washer as they said I might need to. I was > tempted to put in both washers but it was a bit too snug and as the gear > spins and the washers do not I thought it needed to have a bit of space or > it would all melt. So I just put in one and then used the little washers on > the magnetic ring to take up the rest of the slack. This seemed to work > out OK. > After several attempts I finally got the distributor back in and lined up > properly. For some reason it would not mesh correctly to get in the right > place. I ended up taking the bottom gear off and rotating it 180 to finally > get it right. I swear I had it right but I guess I must not have. The pin > that holds it on is directly under a tooth on one side and under a slot on > the other. Now it is lined up correctly on my marks. > It started right up. But the timing was out a bit. It seems to be advanced > too much. My book ("Chevrolet Truck Shop Manual 57" ) says that at 1000 > RPM it needs to be at 8 degrees BUDC (on page 6-46) (never heard of BUDC, > BTDC yes but BUDC?) but it was now at about 12 degrees. I rotated the > distributor clockwise and it got retarded to about 9 degrees but that is as > far as it goes. The vacuum advance is hitting the bracket in the rear used > to remove/pull the engine with. I was planning to remove the bracket so > that I could get it adjusted to 8 degrees. The window in the distributor is > still facing the front but a tad to the passengers side. > So my questions! > 1). Do you run 8 degrees on 283 V8 for a 57 PU? > I think the engine is really about a 65 model year. > "Chevrolet Truck Shop Manual 57" says 8 BUDC on page 6-46 > then it says that is 4 marks above the O toward the engine center. > Later on page 6y-55 it says ignition timing -8 cylinder 4 degress > BTDC > (that Before Top Dead Center) I think. What is BUDC? (A typo?) > Later on the same page it says Centrifugal Advance -8 Cylinder: > So what are all of these? > Do I do it for 8 degrees or some other setting? > 2.) When you installed a pertronix did it cause your timing to be more > advanced? > 3.) When you do the measuring of the timing do you: > A. idle at 1000 RPM? > B. remove the vacuum advance line to the distributor? > (if I do not it is even more advanced)
Jeez, that book might as well be written in Greek. Distributor rpm?? You have to remember that distributor rpm is different than crank rpm… Stacey, here’s what you do: Close that book, and use it to hold a door open or something. Then set your timing as follows. First, get your motor idling where you like it. 1000 rpm is too high, I like 750 or a little less. Now, DISCONNECT the vacuum advance from the carburetor. Timing at idle (called "initial timing") should be in the neighborhood of 8 degrees advanced. I don’t know what the hell BUDC is. Advanced is BTDC, before top dead center. Now, rev the motor up to ~3000 rpm and watch the timing. It should advance to 34 – 38 degrees, no higher than 38. Even 38 is probably a little high. You want the timing to be all in by 3000 rpm, beginning just around 1400 rpm or so. If the timing is off, turn the distributor slightly to adjust. If it’s pointing in a strange direction, you might be off a tooth. When you’re done, tighten the distributor down. Reconnect the vac advance and recheck the timing. It should be 10 to 15 degrees higher than before, at 3000 rpm. I’ve never seen the Pertronix change timing, btw. > 4.) I was able to run the leads from the PERTRONIX to the + and – sides of > the COIL and did not have to mess with the ballast resister. As a result > the leads are about 12" too long. Did you trim them up and put on > different connectors?
You can do that, yes. > What did you do with the extra length that you did not need.? > I was afraid that if it lays on the engine it might get too hot and melt off > short out.
It could, yep. If you don’t trim ‘em, use wire ties and tie them up somewhere out of the way. Or coil ‘em up. Don’t let them lay on exhaust manifolds. > That is about it for now. If any of you have any advice please let me know. > Thanks, > Stacey
Hope this helped, if you’re looking at your screen with a "what the hell did he just say?" look, post back. Justin — Well I ain’t first class, But I ain’t white trash, I’m wild and a little crazy too, Some girls don’t like boys like me, Aw but some girls do. –Sawyer Brown
Response:
>And, yes, remove and plug that vacuum advance line.
Why do you have to plug it? Are you pluging the end of the hose that goes to the carb or the end that goes to the vacuum advance? Let me say that differentedly…. Should I remove the vacuum line from the vacuum advance side or the carburator side? I am guessing that I need to remove it from the vacum advance and plug the end of the hose so that the carberator does not keep pulling in air from that line. Is that correct? In the past I always left it on the vacuum advance and plugged it but that should not do anything for the vacuum advance and it does have an effect on the carb sucking more air in the vacuum line. So which way is correct? Thanks again. -Stacey – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hope I didn’t confuse you further. Jim.
Response:
Stacey, I haven’t used the Pertronix, but I do know Chevy small blocks, soo… First, the timing required is a dynamic thing, and is best decided by the cam profile, intake characteristics, and load (how much work it is doing). Having said that, 8 btdc is about right for almost all 283’s, stock. You can tell if it is getting dangerously high, ’cause it will rattle, ping, or knock, and it will usually get warmer than normal before this happens. Second, I have had problems re-installing distributors before, and here is why. The distributor drives the oil pump also, and when installing, you must mate the oil pump drive as well as the gear drive. This can sometimes be a problem, especially if the engine is turned over with the distributor out. To correct this you could use a long flat blade screwdriver to turn the pump shaft, or you could drop the distributor into the slot you want it in, and then turn the engine until it mates with the pump, and drops the rest of the way in, You could do this by bumping the engine with the starter, but I use a socket on the balancer to avoid problems if anything goes wrong, and that way the starter motor torque is not present to force it if it doesn’t drop in right away. lastly, you can put the distributor in any alignment you like, and could move it one tooth to bring the range of adjustment where you want it, but you MUST move the wires when you move the distributor, so that the firing order stays correct. I often move the distributor one notch when using aftermarket manifolds, ’cause the vacuum advance cylinder hits the runners. And, yes, remove and plug that vacuum advance line. Also, the reason they give different figures for different rpm’s is that the mechanical advance starts about 1000 rpm on those motors, so the timing will change with rpm. Hope I didn’t confuse you further. Jim.
Response:
> Stacey, here’s what you do: Close that book, and use it to hold a door >open or something. Then set your timing as follows. First, get your motor >idling where you like it. 1000 rpm is too high, I like 750 or a little >less. Now, DISCONNECT the vacuum advance from the carburetor. Timing at >idle (called "initial timing") should be in the neighborhood of 8 degrees >advanced. I don’t know what the hell BUDC is. Advanced is BTDC, before >top dead center. Now, rev the motor up to ~3000 rpm and watch the timing. >It should advance to 34 – 38 degrees, no higher than 38. Even 38 is >probably a little high. You want the timing to be all in by 3000 rpm, >beginning just around 1400 rpm or so.
How are you reading the degrees? My marks on the engine template are R O A with the A going to about 12 to 14 degrees Advanced. How do you read 38 degrees? Do you have some sort of meter? I did get it set OK a 8 degrees and it seems to sound OK. I did not test drive it yet bu it revs fine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hope this helped, if you’re looking at your screen with a "what the hell >did he just say?" look, post back. >Justin
Response:
I finally got around to installing the PERTRONIX igniter (points replacement) in my 57 Chevy PU. Several of you mentioned that you had used this. I have a couple questions at the end. Here is a bit of history on my installation: The instructions laid it out pretty good. As mentioned in them I did have some gear slop. I had lots of extra slop from the gear on the bottom so I needed to pull the distributor and install a washer as they said I might need to. I was tempted to put in both washers but it was a bit too snug and as the gear spins and the washers do not I thought it needed to have a bit of space or it would all melt. So I just put in one and then used the little washers on the magnetic ring to take up the rest of the slack. This seemed to work out OK. After several attempts I finally got the distributor back in and lined up properly. For some reason it would not mesh correctly to get in the right place. I ended up taking the bottom gear off and rotating it 180 to finally get it right. I swear I had it right but I guess I must not have. The pin that holds it on is directly under a tooth on one side and under a slot on the other. Now it is lined up correctly on my marks. It started right up. But the timing was out a bit. It seems to be advanced too much. My book ("Chevrolet Truck Shop Manual 57" ) says that at 1000 RPM it needs to be at 8 degrees BUDC (on page 6-46) (never heard of BUDC, BTDC yes but BUDC?) but it was now at about 12 degrees. I rotated the distributor clockwise and it got retarded to about 9 degrees but that is as far as it goes. The vacuum advance is hitting the bracket in the rear used to remove/pull the engine with. I was planning to remove the bracket so that I could get it adjusted to 8 degrees. The window in the distributor is still facing the front but a tad to the passengers side. So my questions! 1). Do you run 8 degrees on 283 V8 for a 57 PU? I think the engine is really about a 65 model year. "Chevrolet Truck Shop Manual 57" says 8 BUDC on page 6-46 then it says that is 4 marks above the O toward the engine center. Later on page 6y-55 it says ignition timing -8 cylinder 4 degress BTDC (that Before Top Dead Center) I think. What is BUDC? (A typo?) Later on the same page it says Centrifugal Advance -8 Cylinder: So what are all of these? Do I do it for 8 degrees or some other setting? 2.) When you installed a pertronix did it cause your timing to be more advanced? 3.) When you do the measuring of the timing do you: A. idle at 1000 RPM? B. remove the vacuum advance line to the distributor? (if I do not it is even more advanced) 4.) I was able to run the leads from the PERTRONIX to the + and – sides of the COIL and did not have to mess with the ballast resister. As a result the leads are about 12" too long. Did you trim them up and put on different connectors? What did you do with the extra length that you did not need.? I was afraid that if it lays on the engine it might get too hot and melt off short out. That is about it for now. If any of you have any advice please let me know. Thanks, Stacey
Response:
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